Everything must be weighed. Most people, myself included, think that sometimes, regrettably, some wrongs must be committed for the greater good.

     This is an interesting comment from Fred considering one of his problems with the existence of God is that God allows evil. If finite beings such as humans are can allow for the fact that sometimes allowing wrongdoings/evil can result in a greater good down the road, then an infinite being such as God could certainly be allowing the for the same eventuality. This may not be the best of all possible worlds, but this could be the best world to prepare us for what comes after.

     Of course I think that Hitler was immoral, but only when weighed against what I consider my personal moral view, much of which comes from naturally evolved empathy and the code of humanism.

     I don’t know of too many people that would consider Hitler a moral person. If Fred is human and he evolved this empathy, they why didn’t Hitler, assuming of course that Hitler was human. Then of course, if morality is relative, what is it relative too? To be relative implies that it has a relationship to an absolute set of standards. 

     Was Hitler's Germany bad enough to warrant the fire bombing of Dresden? Is any particular German soldier immoral for shooting back if his life depends on it? What if he's been conscripted? It depends entirely on the situation.

     Which is somewhat what I was getting at; the attempted defense was “we were only following orders.”  To make the claim that moral behavior depends on the situation is misleading. If that is true, then is there ever a situation where rape would be justified? Killing someone for no reason is murder. Killing someone to protect yourself or your family is an entirely different situation.

      Thou Shalt Not Kill Except To Prevent Genocide, In Which Case Killing Civilians Is OK? Ironic. The Bible is riddled with genocide – ethnicity and maintaining blood lines seem to be Old Testament virtues. The largest Christian sect in the world also turned the other cheek during that war, happy that fewer Jews would result...

     I’ll make the assumption here that Fred is referring to the 10 commandments from exodus chapter 20, specifically the 6^th commandment. This commandment is often interpreted as thou shall not kill. Closer inspection reveals that the more correct interpretation is thou shall not murder. Were civilians killed during WW2 from both sides? Certainly and I don’t know of anyone that would deny that. Did God command Israel to go to war with certain nations during the time of the Old Testament? Right once again however who did they go to war against? The nations that Israel did fight wouldn’t be considered moral/ethical nations. If the U.S was morally correct to stop Germany then wasn’t Israel morally correct in stopping these nations? His last statement is also fundamentally incorrect also. Not all Catholics “turned the other cheek” as he states. There were many that lost their lives protecting the Jews. 

     What does the science tell us?

     Science can tell us nothing about morality or ethics. Both are in the metaphysical realm and as we know, metaphysics is outside of science’s domain.  Neither one exists in the physical realm and neither one can be quantified or measured. We can see physical actions as a result of one’s ethic code.

     For example, one can say that true altruism doesn't exist.

     One could say that but I wouldn’t believe it. What if what you were doing cost you your life? Rushing into a burning building to save a life that isn’t involved with you in any way? Perhaps a problem with today’s society is that there is no true compassion anymore. Very few people seem to help out simply because it’s the right thing to do. Keep your receipts when you donate, those can be used for tax purposes! I’ve even heard that since person X is an atheist, his good deeds are better then person Y because person Y is only doing such because God told them too. A good deed isn’t a good deed if you expect something in return.

     Empathy, like love, evolved to help with the bond between mother and child, father and mother, father and children and so on.

     My question would be how would empathy evolve? It has to be present to begin with or the offspring dies while evolution figures out how to solve the problem. I use the term “evolution figures…” figuratively since evolution is a mindless process.  Sure, if it’s successful then life goes on but if the change isn't successful (when has there been a good mutation) then the species checks out. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of room for error. Also how would helping another tribe, one that is competing for the same resources, evolve into a survival mechanism? A belief that since you helped them, they are going to return the favor?

     Why in the world not? Where does that logic come from? If one society is stronger it will often impose its will onto a lesser society.

And certain things were wrong in the past, but are right today, while other things were right in the past, but now considered wrong.

     First question- if morality and ethics can be dictated by a stronger society then that reduces ethics not too right or wrong but one of control and power or in other words, might makes right. Those in control can dictate ethical and moral behavior and if that is correct, then flying airplanes into buildings and killing innocent people is morally just since those in control have said such behavior is fine.  

Second question -was slavery right up to the point the north won the war? How about some of those religions that sacrificed children and virgins to appease the gods?  Is Islam ok for them but not for us right now but at some point in the future be considered ok?

     Just to address another topic, its been suggested that if it wasn’t for that evil Christianity, then we’d be 1000 years or more ahead in our technology. Interesting idea however I think it’s wrong and here’s why: Population. While it is true that once technology reaches a certain point, then the population base necessary to support could and often does decrease. The fact is however; to support industry requires a large population base. As an example think of how many people are employed by Ford just for production as well as engineers, support staff and support for the factories.  Then you have infrastructure, gas stations, roads, (think a modern car would last long on roman roads), etc, etc. You also need to train those engineers, chemist, electricians, and maintenance staff to work in those factories and support facilities. Also, the Bible isn’t a science text book; it’s a book about the relationship between God and man. Let us say for instance, God does explain physics, chemistry and biology, now what are the Israelis to do? Settle down and start developing research facilities and the required structure necessary to support it.

     To address another topic from Keith Cantrell titled “The Gospels In The Language Of Jesus.” First of all, all of the Gospels were written within one generation of the life of Jesus. That is insufficient time for a “myth” to develop.  Another question is posed is “So, if Jesus was divine, wouldn't you want his sacred words recorded in the language he spoke and used every day?”  The problem being with that reasoning is 2000 years ago; paper was expensive and not easy to come by. It’s not like the apostles followed Jesus around writing down his every move and word.  A plausible reason for the similarities between the Gospels (which is not mentioned) is that Matthew, Mark and John were there. They are similar enough to warrant eyewitness testimony but not so similar as to warrant collusion.

     He also wonders (The Nature Of Religion) that if heaven or hell actually exist, then why haven’t found it? If you can see, smell, taste, touch or hear it, then it probably doesn’t exist. Well, how about thought? You can sense the after effects of a thought but the thought itself is immaterial.

     Soon to follow, some views on consciousness otherwise knows as that annoying time between naps.

	Web useless-knowledge.com